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Question: Someone said, “One basic characteristic of loving is to be interested in other’s spiritual growth.” What is spiritual growth?
Speaker: Let us say that there are two persons, A and B. Whenever one person is related to another person, the effect of one person on the other, their mutual effect on each other can be of two types. One is – B becomes dependent on A.
B already had a mind that wanted dependence, and now B has become all the more dependent on A. B has become attached to A, and A is relishing that attachment. A is saying, “See, he loves me so much, that is why he has become so much attached.” After all, attachment is a sign of love. A has filled up B’s mind completely. A says, “B is now so completely in love with me, that now he or she is all the time thinking of me.” So obviously there is no scope of contemplation, introspection.
B used to be a reader. Every night, before sleeping, she would read at least for two hours. She typically went to bed at around ten o’clock, and would read till midnight, and then sleep. Now A knows that she retires at ten o’clock, so he calls her at ten every night. And now these two talk for two hours, and she now sleeps at around midnight.
Now obviously, the time that could have gone into reading, is now taken away by A. What is the effect that A is having on B? That A has now completely filled-up B’s mind. This is what the opposite of spiritual growth is. The mind was already cluttered. And the effect of A on B’s life is, that B’s mind is all the more cluttered now. This is what our normal love does to the other.
“Talk to me for four hours on phone.” Is that the best use of his or her time? You are destroying the other person. You are the biggest enemy she can ever have. You are not giving him or her space. You are not allowing her aloneness.
Now B can become conditioned to such an extent that one day when A realizes that this is the effect he is having on B, he says “No. I will no more call you up. You must read.” Now B says, “Surely there is somebody else in your life now. Whom are you seeing these days? Who is that bitch? I will kill her.” B will not even realize what is meant by ‘spiritual growth’.
What is love? Look at the people who say that – “We love somebody.” What are they filling the other’s mind with?
Listeners: Their own beliefs.
Speaker: Their own beliefs. You know there is another aspect to it. Let me come to it. Whenever two people come in touch with each other, the man would always remind the woman of her body. He looks at her, and she realizes that he is greatly interested in her body. And this mind which would otherwise have been calm, now gets filled up with the thoughts of the body. The very presence of the male makes the woman body-centric and vice versa.
He or she used be calm, nice, decent individuals. But since they have entered each other’s life, all the time they are sexually aroused. And when they are not sexually aroused, they would get some message, or some picture, or a thought, which would make them all body, rather all genitals. From head to toe, this woman is only now genitals. Nothing else has remained. Brains have been eaten out. That is what the man has done to her- made a huge genital out of her being. That’s what she has done to the man as well. It is applicable to both sides.
Is this love? This is exactly what spiritual growth is not. Your presence is reducing the other person to a corpse, to a mere huge piece of flesh. Is that not what husbands do to their wives? The husband is horny, and the two are on the bed. The husband wants to have a go at her, and she is reading a book of Krishnamurti. Now what is the husband going to do? The husband is read to attack, and she is reading a Krishnamurti book. Now what is the husband going to do? Many of you are married so you know what happens. “This old man, is he sexier than me?” This is the effect that lovers have on each other.
She used to be a nice woman. And then he will get her pregnant. Now she is all body. At least for nine months, she is nothing but the body. Body is constantly reminding her of this and that. Then the baby comes and she has to definitely remain a body. This is the effect that so-called lovers have on each other. Where would you find reading happening when people are in love? Then they only read SMS messages.
And you say, “I am in love, bliss.” It is so difficult to even imagine that there can be lovers who actually wish each other well. Is it possible to have a husband who realizes in the middle of sex that – “Did you do your daily reading today? No. I am getting-off. Where is your book? First read. Finish your twenty pages reading.” And she is saying, “No. I will read tomorrow.” He says, “No. Today. Otherwise how will you attend the Clarity Session?”
From where will you find such a man? You have wives, you have husbands who are of entirely different nature. Where do you hide Krishnamurti’s book, by the way, in your house? Under the pillow, over the AC? As if it is some dirty book and should not be found?
(Sarcastically) “So this is what you have been reading these days? Have you fallen so low? Do you see the effect it will have on our kid? This is the example you are setting. You will get brainwashed after reading this.”
That is the quality of our love. I have seen people come here, and their spouses would wait for two hours downstairs, but they won’t climb up. Spouses, fathers, mothers, friends: they will wait downstairs, but they will not climb up. And if they happen to see me, “This is that man whose face keeps popping out of her laptop all the time?”
Now what is this? Is this love? Do you really wish each other well? If your wife doesn’t like you coming here, does she really wish you well? Or is she really your enemy? Help her! I am not saying that kill your enemy. I am saying that help your enemy. Help her, she needs treatment.
This is a very pertinent question. One basic characteristic of real love is that you help the other person really grow. That growth is nothing but self-revelation. And that self-awareness is through your presence. Are you really helping the other person, or drowning him in some kind of intoxication?
Real lovers help each other grow spiritually. They help each other become more self-aware.
Watch the session at: What really is a loving relationship? The transcription has been edited for clarity.
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